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  •  we're talking about swing voters (0+ / 0-)

    rural white folks in Missouri could be Dems, Reps or unaffiliated.  This election will be one by who gets out their base and pulls the most swing voters.  It's completely missing the point to talk about Dems voting for McCain.  

    by jhannon on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 12:58:07 PM PDT

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    •  Do you enjoy talking with yourself? (0+ / 0-)

      My point was there are racists in the Democratic party -- not just in MO, but nationally.  I don't expect Democratic racists to vote for Obama.

      I do, however, expect Obama to do a good job consolidating the rest of the (non-racist) Democratic base.

      I also expect him to do boatloads better than Hillary pulling in indies and disaffected Republicans.

      Obama is far and away our best candidate, even despite his handicap that certain racist whites will never vote for him simply because of his skin color.

      Yes, We Can

      by litho on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 01:56:47 PM PDT

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      •  Talking with myself? How silly (0+ / 0-)

        What are you talking about?  Disagreeing with you means I'm talking with myself?  Or is it just unacceptable to counter orthodoxy on this site?  Ridiculous.

        You think Obama will do better in pulling in Indies.  The original point was how well he would do with rural whites in Missouri, and similar states.  I think he has suffered some damage with that group of voters.  If they vote for someone else, it will not necessarily be a matter of racism.  

        by jhannon on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 03:00:19 PM PDT

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        •  Sheesh. Am I supposed to take you seriously? (0+ / 0-)

          The link in my previous comment goes to you saying this:

          Obama has done better with independents and (disaffected) Republicans

          So, apparently, you also think:

          Obama will do better pulling in Indies.

          As for the history of this thread, it goes back to me responding to DHinMI's comment that once we are down to a Democrat and a Republican borderline Dems will have to decide which way to vote.  His comment was in reply to one by oceanstar17, who very clearly was musing on what would happen with rural white working class voters in MO, OH, and PA.

          My reply, to put it in full context, then, was that we have little to worry about.  Some of those people are racist and will not vote for Obama.  Others are indies and disaffected Republicans, but not racists, and will likely be susceptible to Obama's message.

          My sense is that he wins more indies and disaffected Republicans than he loses white racists.

          Your problem with that analysis is what?  That white racists exist, and that their voting decisions are influenced by their racism?

          Yes, We Can

          by litho on Sun Apr 27, 2008 at 03:13:35 PM PDT

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          •  Well, that's up to you (0+ / 0-)

            but I remain impressed by how dismissive and arrogant Obama supporters on this site can be--and weak on the details of an argument.

            It's really not a difficult argument.  I said that IN EARLY PRIMARIES Obama did better with independents and (disaffected) Republicans.  (So much for acknowledging context).  Times have changed since the EARLY primaries.  Swing voters include the unaffiliated and lightly affiliated Dems and Repubs.  I think these swing voters are now LESS susceptible to Obama's message than they were months ago.  

            And we weren't talking about Indie voters in general==we were discussing white, rural voters.  The initial implication was that a white Dem who crossed to vote for McCain would have to be a racist.  That is tautological.  You have no problem with Repubs voting for Obama because they see him as inspiring.  Some Dems will vote for McCain because they see him as more experienced, or tougher, or whatever.

            Yes, I believe white racists exist and I believe some will refuse (or simply be less likely) to vote for Obama as the Dem nominee.  But to assume that there are no other reasons is prejudicial and simplistic.

            Here's an idea.  Make an argument on the merits and be so convincing there will be no reason to rely on anonymous ad hominem attacks or speculate on whether I enjoy talking to myself or am unworthy of being taken seriously.  I think your arguments will be taken more seriously if they stand on your own.  Another benefit is that you'll have to work a bit harder to make them do so.      
             

            by jhannon on Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 10:16:44 PM PDT

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