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In the same week in which anti-immigration activists are demanding that Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC) out himself, here in the City of Brotherly Love we've now got the reverse: longtime St. Rep. Babette Josephs (D), 70, a stalwart ally of the LGBT community, is accusing her primary opponent of lying about being bisexual in order to court LGBT voters:

"I outed him as a straight person," Josephs said during a fund-raiser at the Black Sheep Pub & Restaurant, as some in the audience gasped or laughed, "and now he goes around telling people, quote, 'I swing both ways.' That's quite a respectful way to talk about sexuality. This guy's a gem."

Kravitz, 29, said that he is sexually attracted to both men and women and called Josephs' comments offensive.

"That kind of taunting is going to make it more difficult for closeted members of the LGBT community to be comfortable with themselves," Kravitz said. "It's damaging."

But others said the remarkable quarrel itself was a sign of progress.

"We've hit a new high point when candidates are accused of pretending to be gay to win a seat," said Mark Segal, publisher of the Philadelphia Gay News and a pioneering civil rights advocate.

"I've been doing this for 40 years, and I never have heard of this kind of charge in any race in the nation," he said. "I take that as flattery. It shows how far we've come."

Audio of Rep. Josephs' remarks is here. Meanwhile, Kravitz sent out a campaign email this morning stating: "It is disturbing that at a time when there are so many issues and ideas that should be discussed by our representatives that my opponent in this race has decided to spread lies about my sexuality, my family and even my employment as a way to cling to her elected position of 25 years.  But times are changing."  

By way of context: this is a downtown, highly liberal district (it includes my office) in which every two years like clockwork, some young local progressive challenges Rep. Josephs in a primary -- more because of the desire of young ambitious activists to serve in Harrisburg than any particular fault of Josephs'.  Thus far, every time the challenger has fallen short, though coming as close as 237 votes in 2006.  

Josephs has the endorsement of the Liberty City Democratic Club -- Philadelphia's main LGBT political organization -- and both hers and Kravitz's detailed questionnaires provided to the group are online.

Originally posted to Daily Kos on Thu Apr 22, 2010 at 05:16 PM PDT.

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Comment Preferences

  •  As the President Described it (17+ / 0-)

    It's Silly Season.

    Afghanistan:Graveyard to empires-It's not just a bumpersticker

    by JML9999 on Thu Apr 22, 2010 at 05:18:45 PM PDT

  •  This post is so gay. (13+ / 0-)

    See the losers in the best bars, meet the winners in the dives -Neil Young

    by danoland on Thu Apr 22, 2010 at 05:19:21 PM PDT

  •  This is as confusing ... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Rolfyboy6, Matt Z, janmtairy

    As "Victor Victoria."

    The Republican brand: "Consequences, schmonsequences, as long as I'm rich"

    by D in Northern Virginia on Thu Apr 22, 2010 at 05:20:33 PM PDT

  •  Politics do indeed make strange bedfellows. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bink, Rolfyboy6

    Proud to be a socialist fuckstick.

    by jazzmaniac on Thu Apr 22, 2010 at 05:22:49 PM PDT

  •  Using the term "out himself" (0+ / 0-)

    in reference to Sen. Graham strongly suggests he's "in."  For what it's worth, I think where's there's smoke in this case, there's probably fire, but we might want to check the language down a little on the front page.

    "This world demands the qualities of youth: not a time of life but a state of mind[.]" -- Robert F. Kennedy

    by Loge on Thu Apr 22, 2010 at 05:23:17 PM PDT

  •  As I understand it, Kravitz said he was gay and (9+ / 0-)

    then was seen with a girlfriend.  At that point he said he was bisexual.

    I don't really care what the guy's sexuality is, but since he brought it up, it does seem fair to at least point out the strange inconsistencies.

    •  Not clear when/where he said he was gay (5+ / 0-)

      Do you have a source for that?

      In his questionnaire he identifies himself as "a member of the LGBT community" -- not inconsistent with being bisexual. If he ever claimed to be gay then it might make sense to question, but my bisexual spouse identifies as gay sometimes, he considers gay an "umbrella term" that include bi too -- we have argued it (in a friendly way) but some bi people do use the term in a more open ended way. I'd like to see the reference, if there is one, before jumping to any conclusions.

      •  My experience is the opposite (3+ / 0-)

        When people ask me if I'm gay, I sometimes have to ask "Which part?"  If they ask me if I'm straight, well, that's easier to answer.  I sometimes tell people that information is on a need to know basis.  They only need to know if they're considering sleeping with me.  

        It's time for the Democratic leadership to continue to use the House and Senate rules to enact our agenda. HCR is just the start!

        by NM Ward Chair on Thu Apr 22, 2010 at 05:47:41 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Yes, my spouse and I differ on that question (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Matt Z, two roads, NM Ward Chair

          I do not like the confusion is creates for some people when he uses 'gay' to mean more generally "not straight" and prefer to clearly own my bi identity. I do not consider myself gay, but he does, even though we are both bi. We also both cheerfully use the word queer in some contexts but that one really pushes buttons. :)

          •  Yeah, I was going to suggest "Queer" (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            CS in AZ

            but that is best only used with appreciative audiences, unless you want to push those buttons!  To me, "Gay" means that you are only attracted to members of your own gender.  It does not mean bisexual.  There's a separate letter in the acronym for that.  Apparently others disagree.  /snort

            My first impression is that using "a proud member of the LGBT community" to describe one's sexuality is a bit vague, but I didn't see the wording of the question.  

            I will say that challenging a good legislator in the primary is reprehensible.  I'd have to move to run for legislative office or wait for a vacancy to occur, because my representatives from city councilor on up are doing a far better job representing my values than I could, even though I occasionally disagree with them.

            It's time for the Democratic leadership to continue to use the House and Senate rules to enact our agenda. HCR is just the start!

            by NM Ward Chair on Thu Apr 22, 2010 at 06:17:57 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  I agree, and to clarify further his statement (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              LiberalATX

              I don't know who he is or why he's running. This story only caught my eye because of being about bisexuality and I saw it on TPM earlier and was irritated (mildly) that his self identification of being bisexual automatically leads to ridicule and attack and questioning from all sides. And of course many more people making fun that taking the time to learn anything. So typical and annoying but not a big deal. I've been involved in bisexual groups and education efforts and outreach for many years. I know the routines by heart.

              As for his wording on being a proud member of the community, I sort of misspoke I think.

              I found this:

              On the trail, Kravitz has described himself as a "proud member of the LGBT community," and he discussed his bisexual orientation while pitching Liberty City for its endorsement.

              and this is the actual questionnaire answer:

              1. Who advises you on LGBT issues?

              As a member of the LGBT community, I know from personal experience that there are diverse perspectives on how to best identify, prioritize, and address the many issues that effect members of our community in their personal and professional lives. Because of this diversity in perspectives, I think it’s important that policy makers and candidates actively seek out different voices when considering LGBT issues. To that end, I have sought the advice and counsel of many LGBT leaders, including Steven Glassman, Mark Segal, Malcolm Lazin, Brian Sims, Cei Bell, and Greg Walker, amongst others. Some of these individuals are not supporting my candidacy, but as a person who is serious about making real progress on public policy relevant to the LGBT community, I will continue to seek advice from as many diverse and credible perspectives as possible, regardless of their political preference.

              So yes, he avoided using the term bisexual in his response. He also didn't say he was gay. He identifies as a member of the community. But the news article says he discussed his bisexual orientation with them. So, who knows? He did not say he was gay, so this story is clearly silly. There is no inconsistency between identifying as a member of the GLBT community and dating a woman. Just ask my gay husband! LOL

            •  then what about (0+ / 0-)

              the G vs the L? Wouldn't the definition you just gave of "gay" also correspond to lesbians? So why would L get its own letter and not B?

              Also, about the challenging a good legislator....it all depends on how you define good. People may think a person is a great legislator on issues A through X, but they may have ignored issue Y, which is most important to a certain group of people (like say Clinton and the Rockafeller drug laws and how they disproportionately affect Blacks or Obama and his lack of action on  DADT and Gay Marriage).

        •  I get this one from time to time... (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          NM Ward Chair

          People sometimes think/assume that I am bisexual and I don't know why.  When I first came out, I got that one from some people..  

          •  It's dangerous to use one's own experience (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            SoCalLiberal, LiberalATX

            as the sole factor in predicting how others will (or ought to) behave.  Your experience is much different than mine.

            It's time for the Democratic leadership to continue to use the House and Senate rules to enact our agenda. HCR is just the start!

            by NM Ward Chair on Thu Apr 22, 2010 at 06:20:59 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  I agree completely (0+ / 0-)

              Here's the thing, I guess I can be somewhat masculine.  I like a lot of things that straight guys like and I have straight male friends (though I have far more female friends).  At a dinner table conversation, when the men split off to talk amongst themselves, I can hold a conversation and enjoy it.  And when the women split off to talk amongst themselves, I can hold a conversation and enjoy it.  I don't have a lisp (or a gay accent) and I do enjoy lots of traditionally male activities.  But it's not acting, it's not like I'm trying to put up a front in order to blend in and gain acceptance from the straight majority.  I am who I am and I am not acting any more than a more effeminate gay male acts.  

              Now by that same token, just because of my enjoyment of traditionally male activities, that doesn't mean I'm somehow less gay than others.  

      •  I read it in another blog post about the story (0+ / 0-)

        Probably safest to keep an open mind about who said what and how. :)

        •  Hum... people talking about it, (0+ / 0-)

          also quite possibly misinformed or not having the whole story either.

          I'd say best to be quite skeptical of this claim, unless someone has an actual quote of him saying he is gay, in a context that implies strictly homosexual. Otherwise this story is noting but a dumb attempt at a smear.

    •  Look baby, I think I might be gay (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Aexia, Matt Z, NM Ward Chair, janmtairy

      Maybe you could help me to like women.

      I knew a raving hetero male who used this line with great success in bars.  Some of the women might actually have believed it, most seemed charmed with actually hearing a  line they hadn't heard before.

      "It's too LATE to stop now!" - John Lee Hooker

      by Rolfyboy6 on Thu Apr 22, 2010 at 05:37:08 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  why is anyone sexual orientation (6+ / 0-)

      anyone's business.

      I used to live in Babette Joseph's district. She learned well from Arlen Specter. It's always about THEM. Maybe we need politicians who aren't so "important"!

    •  That's a good point. He brought it up! (0+ / 0-)

      presumably to court gay voters.  Whining about it now won't help him any more than pretending to be gay did.  

      Given the nature of the post, I read "City of brotherly love" and still thought San Francisco.

      It's time for the Democratic leadership to continue to use the House and Senate rules to enact our agenda. HCR is just the start!

      by NM Ward Chair on Thu Apr 22, 2010 at 05:42:35 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  No evidence he ever said he was gay (0+ / 0-)

      that I can find.

      Except his opponent's claim that he told her he was gay, which he denies ever discussing it with her.

      I did find this...

      On the trail, Kravitz has described himself as a "proud member of the LGBT community," and he discussed his bisexual orientation while pitching Liberty City for its endorsement.

      I can find no evidence that he has ever been inconsistent in his self-identification.

    •  That is a bit odd (0+ / 0-)

      I will admit.  

      I don't want to demean or attack the bisexuals, I'm not questioning them.  We've all had our bisexual moments.  But yeah, that's kinda odd.  

  •  Wasn't there a Will and Grace episode like this? (6+ / 0-)

    Matt Damon pretended to be gay for the Gay's Mens Chorus so he could go to Europe, and Jack had to "in" him.

  •  I had a very strange conversation with (4+ / 0-)

    Rep. Josephs once at one of the many, many Transportation and Funding Reform hearings Rendell has had over the years.

    But she is pretty cool. And she's probably the only person in the PA General Assembly who gives a shit about transit---she doesn't even take the car allowance that many of the rest of them rather abuse.

    you know, it's just a blog. some of you people need to get the frak over yourselves.

    by terrypinder on Thu Apr 22, 2010 at 05:41:37 PM PDT

  •  that's to say, I'd vote for her. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    SoCalLiberal, NM Ward Chair

    if I lived in her district. She's loads better then my state reps who actively hate government.

    you know, it's just a blog. some of you people need to get the frak over yourselves.

    by terrypinder on Thu Apr 22, 2010 at 05:42:57 PM PDT

  •  Considering the Crap (11+ / 0-)

    I as a bisexual by identification person put up with in the 1970's as a teen (you CAN'T be gay you LOVE screwing boys; you MUST be a lesbian since you are ALL OVER getting together with girls) and sometimes (though thankfully less) even today when I am in a heterosexual monogamous marriage but still can and do find my heart going pitter patter over a beautiful woman (and we ain't even going to discuss the poly part), I am sort of upset by the glibness with which the idea that a person who says they are "bi" is dismissed if they look like are rolling in the standard hetero package at any given moment.  I don't know and don't care if the guy is straight, gay or bi.  But I do feel that bi folks are never taken seriously by anyone unless you're either fucking one of each all the time or refuse to commit to monogamy because you "just can't live without" the other gender.

    /sigh

    If you don't stand for something, you will go for anything. Visit Maat's Feather

    by shanikka on Thu Apr 22, 2010 at 05:43:12 PM PDT

    •  They're kind of like "centrists" I guess (4+ / 0-)

      They just manage to piss off both sides at the same time. ;)

      I guess part of the problem is that the term "bi" is usually thrown around frivolously, either by straight women trying to be edgy or racy (possibly for the sake of their fantasizing bfs) or gay men who aren't willing to commit themselves yet to admitting to being "all the way" gay.  Not to mention that the bisexual-identifying women seem to always end up with men, and the bisexual-identifying men also seem to end up with men.  (This is of course all anecdotal.)

      It's still silly to try to pin down someone's sexuality, though.  They know best how to identify themselves, and sexuality is a spectrum, and so on and so forth.

      I do find it hard to believe that a legislator is more likely to gain votes for not being straight, no matter how liberal the district, unless they represent Provincetown or something.

      •  This is much clearer than what I wrote upthread (4+ / 0-)

        They just manage to piss off both sides at the same time. ;)

        What you said!

        gay men who aren't willing to commit themselves yet to admitting to being "all the way" gay.

        I had a good friend accuse me of that.  He said it wasn't possible for anybody to really be bi.  What he meant was that it wasn't possible for him.

        It's time for the Democratic leadership to continue to use the House and Senate rules to enact our agenda. HCR is just the start!

        by NM Ward Chair on Thu Apr 22, 2010 at 05:59:37 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I used to work at a mega bookstore. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Matt Z

          We had about 70 employees.  Someone asked me how many gay employees we had.  My answer:  Brendan is straight, Barit is a lesbian, JC is bisexual.  Everyone else is carefully gender neutral when talking about their SOs.  Which is REALLY hard to do.  Made me laugh (we were in a way gay-cool area, so I think there were a lot of gay wannabes).

          Trust me, after taxes, a million dollars is not a lot of money. Michael Steele 02/05/10

          by janmtairy on Thu Apr 22, 2010 at 06:20:33 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  I think perhaps because there are a number of men (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Matt Z, CeeusBeeus, NM Ward Chair

          who do that, say they're bi before saying they're gay.....there is skepticism of bisexuals.  But I think that to assume that no one can be bisexual is somewhat presumptuous and rude.  

          Although I start to wonder sometimes....I hypothesize closeted bisexual men are actually the greatest threat to gay men and comprise the right wing fundamentalist Christian wing who lobby hard against gays and lesbians.  I think it's because those men who are attracted to both genders simply will, for societal reasons, turn to women and will think of themselves as superior to those who are actually gay.  

    •  Hear hear! very well said. (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Matt Z, two roads, Radical def, LiberalATX

      My feelings exactly on this.

      There is no indication that he was ever inconsistent. To try to embarrass him by saying "Oh, look! He was with a woman! so he's straight!" How absurd. People do not know what bisexual means, apparently. This whole flip-flopper meme is insulting.

      He is one of a very few openly bisexual politicians, it is not surprising he gets attacked for it.

    •  Not to sound like I'm telling someone how to live (0+ / 0-)

      You may be in a monogamous marriage to a member of the opposite gender, but that doesn't make it heterosexual.  Two of the members of the board of our local BiNet chapter are man and wife in a monogamous marriage.  They each still consider themselves to be bisexual, and are more active in supporting the organization that most of our other members.  They would never describe themselves, or their marriage, as heterosexual in any way.

  •  Accused of being straight? (7+ / 0-)

    The times they are a'changin.  I am kind of glad to see something as weird as this in Philadelphia, since I like the city a lot.

    I can only hope that Rep. Josephs is forced to retract her scurrilous charge of heterosexuality.

    I don't belong to an organized political party. I'm a Democrat.

    by docterry on Thu Apr 22, 2010 at 05:55:41 PM PDT

  •  Say what? LGBT as some sort of new "emo badge"? (3+ / 0-)

    I thought I had seen it all. Voter's private lives and appeal to who they are, being used as disturbing.

    I find this sort of repellent and most certainly bizarre. I cannot imagine the reaction, if this were done on a racial or ethnic issue.

  •  does one have to be gay to... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Matt Z, spencerh, Radical def

    ...advocate for the LGBT agenda? Just asking. I'm a straight male, but I've always fought for, and fought vigorously for decades LGBT issues and for everyone in the LGBT community having the same 1st-class rights of citizenship that the straight community enjoys and takes for granted. I do find it a little amusing though that somebody would find it necessary to falsely represent themselves just to get votes. But we see this sort of pandering to whatever particular audience any politician is speaking to, going on everyday, don't we?

    "Peace is the protector of genius. War is the mortal enemy of both peace and genius."

    by ImpeachKingBushII on Thu Apr 22, 2010 at 06:00:07 PM PDT

  •  More offensive than that (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    SoCalLiberal, Matt Z, Radical def

    is the assertion that he's a "trust fund baby" and "never had a job." Not offensive to trust funders--I don't give a shit about offending them--but offensive because of the inherent ageism. He's young, so he must be suspect! Just a wet-behind-the-ears kid who is playing with mommy and daddy's money!

    •  really? (0+ / 0-)

      I see the "never had a job" as just a question on his qualifications. The "trust fund baby", although not a set of words I'd use myself, is just what she's saying he thinks makes him qualified - the fact that he's rich.

      There's a lot of difference between, say a 29 year old who's been a community organizer/active in different parts of building and solving problems and someone who hasn't. Obama (who was in his 40's when he was elected president) had his experience questioned for similar reasons.

      Its one thing to have ideas that you think can solve every problem in the system. Its another thing altogether to actually put these ideas in place, and deal with the inequities generated by your ideas and the problems it creates.

      "In theory, your idea is great. But in practice, your idea is B.S."

  •  A thought (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Matt Z, Radical def

    Senator Babette is in her 70's and may not have the most up to date views about sexual orientation.  Kind of like Joy Behar, who seems to have very backwards views on gays and lesbians despite her tolerant and accepting nature.  I mean, Levy Johnston is not a gay icon, okay?  I don't care if he looks like a gay porn actor.  There are so many gay porn actors out there, I'm sure that any male you meet looks like some gay porn actor you've seen.  

    Anyway, LGBT is an acronym for Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, and Transgender, but as we all know, the G and the L take precedence over the other two (except on Pam's House Blend).  Is it possible that her opponent said that he was a member of the "LGBT community" and she simply assumed that he was gay?  

    I remember when I was talking about Oregon's Secretary of State Kate Brown, who's the first openly bisexual person to win a statewide race in the United States, to a friend of mine (who's been an openly gay elected official since the early 1980's).  I was wondering how much her election really meant for gays and lesbians and equality when she was married to a man.  He responded "well it says LGBT (emphasis on B) and she's one of the B so it is still important."  

    My best friend is female and married to a man and yet I forgot that she was bisexual for a time actually.  She started talking about it and I was like "wait?  since when are you bisexual?"  Talk about one of those awkward conversations.  

  •  Amusing story....sort of... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Matt Z

    But ultimately I guess it just shows that Gays, too, can be subjective, unprincipled and opportunist, in weaseling for votes?  

    (regardless of who was more...truthful... in this particular instance)

    My litmus test issue would not be whether an individual is Gay, but whether they are a goddamn "Libertarian"...I'm very prejudiced against Libertarians, especially when they try to use Gayness as "proof" that they are..."progressive"...which Libertarians really are NOT, once you scratch the surface, and examine their deeper socio-economic perspectives, heh.

    Sorry, but I don't believe there's any such thing as "socially liberal but fiscally conservative", anymore than there's any such thing as a "liberal fascist".  The terms are inherently oxymoronic.

    Just because someone thinks it's OK to be Gay, or to smoke pot, does NOT necessarily make them "progressive", or "cool".

    But I guess I do kind of agree with other comments, that this story is...amusingly ironic?  Deliciously bizarre?  Even kind of a good thing, sort of?... that such a flap would emerge.

    It does seem to indicate somewhat of a paradigm shift, heh, which is a good thing, even if this incident does not strike me as a particularly positive manifestation.

    "...a printing press is worth 10,000 rifles..." Ho Chi Minh

    by Radical def on Thu Apr 22, 2010 at 06:31:33 PM PDT

    •  Clarification, upon re-reading Diary... (0+ / 0-)

      ...longtime St. Rep. Babette Josephs (D), 70, a stalwart ally of the LGBT community, is accusing her primary opponent of lying about being bisexual in order to court LGBT voters...

      Initially, I thought they were both Gay, which made this somewhat more...amusingly ironic (and sad)...

      But it seems Josephs is maybe not LBGT herself, just a "stalwart ally"?

      In that case, the story does not, after all, "prove" that "Gays too" can be opportunist weasels, since it appears that the Bi challenger was not really being duplicitous, but was more candid about his orientation than the (hetero LBGT ally) incumbent was willing to give him credit for...

      I guess what that "proves" is that even "stalwart allies" of LBGT can be opportunist weasels?  Or, insensitive and clueless?

      This is making my head hurt.  

      None of it even touches on anything really material, in terms of who would be a better public servant, namely POLITICAL orientation and POLICY, on ISSUES...although the incumbent's attack does seem somewhat unprincipled, or ill-advised, at the very least, which should give some pause for thought, as to her real viability...

      "...a printing press is worth 10,000 rifles..." Ho Chi Minh

      by Radical def on Thu Apr 22, 2010 at 07:27:07 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Politics are strange. On the democratic side, (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Radical def

    there are some that care about sexuality for different reasons. Shit, that some things roll.

    Me? I want to know what can you do.

    Hell, politics.

    "They pour syrup on shit and tell us it's hotcakes." Meteor Blades

    by JugOPunch on Thu Apr 22, 2010 at 06:36:08 PM PDT

  •  It would be great if she were right. (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    RoIn, Matt Z, quadmom, CS in AZ, Radical def

    Then he is eventually forced to hold a tearful press conference in which he admits to secretly being a heterosexual. "I've been living a lie" he'd say...

    I'm in the I-fucking-love-this-guy wing of the Democratic Party!

    by doc2 on Thu Apr 22, 2010 at 06:44:34 PM PDT

  •  As a straight person (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Matt Z, CS in AZ, Radical def, LiberalATX

    it seems to me like there's a lot of internal discrimination within the different shades of G, L, B, and T. Is this the case, or is that just the impression I have as an outsider?

    "I am for Socialism because I am for humanity. We have been cursed with the reign of gold long enough" -Eugene V Debs

    by jabbausaf on Thu Apr 22, 2010 at 06:48:40 PM PDT

    •  Yes, there's a lot of discussion about it (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Matt Z, Radical def, LiberalATX

      amongst the "community" -- which is in all honesty a bit of a misnomer. Or wishful thinking perhaps. Bisexuality is very controversial. For instance bisexuals are not even allowed to participate in the Sidney Pride events. Strictly homos only! No bis allowed. Much confusion and discussion, endlessly. It's about people figuring out their identities, so not surprising I guess that a lot of thought goes into it. For some of us. Others just like many straight people are quite simplistic in their views.

  •  Here's a burning identity issue. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Aexia

    Not gay enough - softball players sue

    All Steven Apilado, LaRon Charles and Jon Russ wanted to do was to win the championship game at the Gay Softball World Series for their amateur San Francisco team.

    Instead, they were marched one by one into a conference room at the tournament in suburban Seattle and asked about their "private sexual attractions and desires," and their team was stripped of its second-place finish after the men were determined to be "non-gay," they said in a lawsuit accusing a national gay sports organization of discrimination.

  •  Listen (0+ / 0-)

    Its a spectrum you can be gay straight bi sort of bi where you like one more than the other.  For example you are attracted to both sexes but like woman more than men.  Everyone is diffecent on the spectrum and these politicans both morons in my opinion.  Leave it be.

    Ora Lee Tate is suing, that usually means we win and they are desperate..... victory brings the crazies out of the closet.

    by oceanstateliberal247 on Thu Apr 22, 2010 at 08:06:35 PM PDT

  •  This is my district n/t (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Matt Z

    If Healthcare Reform will be so unpopular, why is tangerine man so upset about it passing?

    by theran on Thu Apr 22, 2010 at 08:11:01 PM PDT

  •  Haha (0+ / 0-)

    I love it.  Shows in an unusual way we have come a long way in our sexual preference discourse.  This is like straight from a tv sitcom - maybe "Sunny Philly" in the future.

    When we got into office, the thing that surprised me most was to find that things were just as bad as we'd been saying they were. -JFK

    by optimusprime on Thu Apr 22, 2010 at 10:29:42 PM PDT

  •  It doesn't make you a bad person. n/t (0+ / 0-)

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